SPOILER ALERT: This interview incorporates spoilers from “Half 5,” the fifth episode of HBO’s “True Detective: Evening Nation,” now streaming on Max.

Poor, wrong-headed Hank — together with his damaged “90 Day Fiancé” coronary heart, and his thwarted goals of being police chief — is useless. And by the hand of his son, Peter, no much less.

On the finish of “Half 5″ — the penultimate episode of creator Issa López’s “True Detective: Evening Nation” — investigators Liz Danvers (Jodie Foster) and Evangeline Navarro (Kali Reis) are about to defy direct orders. Within the episode’s ultimate moments, they’re heading off on a New 12 months’s Eve quest to search out the caves the place Annie Kowtok died — to attempt to clear up her homicide, in addition to the mysterious deaths of the TSALAL scientists.

However the scene that preceded that coda was essentially the most pivotal of the collection up to now.  

Liz has checked the engineer Otis Heiss (Klaus Tange) out of the hospital, and brought him to her home for a illicit commerce: She’ll give him medicine in change for him pinpointing on the map the place precisely Annie was murdered. Earlier within the episode, Hank (John Hawkes) was ordered by Kate McKitterick (Dervla Kirwan), the pinnacle of Silver Sky Mining, to eliminate Otis. “Danvers isn’t gonna let this go,” Kate tells him. “She’s in search of the situation of the Kotok homicide. She will’t discover that cave.” After Kate as soon as once more guarantees Hank he’ll be chief of police, he reluctantly agrees to comply with Liz to be able to discover Otis, and dispense with him. (“Drug addicts get misplaced,” Kate says. “I don’t have to know the small print.”)

All of which brings Hank to Liz’s home, simply after she’s accomplished her transaction with Otis. What Hank doesn’t know is that Peter (Finn Bennett), the son with whom he yearns to attach, is now staying in Liz’s yard shed. Peter moved from Hank’s home after changing into enraged together with his father for sharing the data Peter had secretly dug up about Liz and Navarro’s doubtless homicide of a serial abuser. As soon as Connelly (Christopher Eccleston) threatened to show Liz and Navarro in the event that they didn’t drop their inquiries, it didn’t take lengthy for till a livid Liz found out that her corrupt boss and former flame had acquired this damning info from Hank, who’d secretly peeked at Peter’s laptop computer.

The lethal occasions at Liz’s home — the place Hank meets his doom — unfold in fast succession. After he talks his means in, saying he must carry Otis to Connelly due to an impressive warrant, issues instantly flip confrontational between them when Liz sees how suspicious Hank is performing. A clueless (and excessive) Otis comes out of the lavatory, and Hank finally ends up taking pictures him, seemingly out of reflex, as Otis makes an attempt to go away. Because the state of affairs escalates between Liz and Hank, and he accuses her of turning Peter towards him, Peter walks in and sees what’s occurred. Hank tries to enlist Peter to assist him cowl up Otis’ demise, however Peter is unmoved, and retains his gun pointing squarely at Hank — who then turns his gun on Liz, inciting Peter to shoot his father to demise to be able to shield her.

It’s an advanced, agonizing scene for the viewers, because it additionally was for the actors who performed it. For Bennett, who delivers a breakthrough efficiency reverse Foster and Hawkes — acclaimed veterans, to say the least — it was the scene he’d been enthusiastic about filming since he acquired the function. “The entire thing is a little bit of a blur,” Bennett says. “It was a little bit of a fever dream, simply because there was a lot weight on that day.”

Of their solely interview collectively, Hawkes and Bennett deconstruct how the scene developed throughout a weekend rehearsal at López’s condo in Reykjavík, Iceland, the place “True Detective: Evening Nation” was filmed. In addition they delve into Hank and Peter’s stunted relationship, one which leads Peter to decide on Liz over his father, with tragic penalties. And Hawkes additionally tells the story of “No Use,” the mournfully beautiful tune he sings as Hank through the episode — which he wrote and carried out at López’s insistence.

That ultimate scene between you is so intense. What it was like whenever you first learn it in your scripts for Episode 5?

John Hawkes: I feel Finn will again me up right here — however after we first learn the scene, it was fairly completely different from what we ended up taking pictures. We acquired collectively as a bunch — Jodie and Finn and I, and Kali and Issa López — and we spent a day actually engaged on that scene, and attempting to determine tips on how to make it sing.

How was it completely different on the web page?

Hawkes: It was subtler. That was the toughest scene, I feel, for all of us to essentially strive to determine tips on how to do.

Finn, what do you bear in mind about that?

Finn Bennett: The bones of that scene have been there. All the things that occurred occurs, however it did want work. We spent the day in Issa’s condo, which was superb for me, as a result of I used to be watching Jodie and John — it was like being a child in a candy store, simply watching these two unimaginable actors work a scene.

Whereas Danvers appeals to his extra rational ethical compass, I feel Hank is interesting to one thing extra sentimental and emotional. Clearly, in that second Peter decides blood is not thicker than water. The scene simply grew to become a lot extra refined and nuanced than it initially was.

Earlier within the episode, Hank says to Kate, the pinnacle of the mining firm, “I’m not a killer.” John, as soon as he shoots Otis and violates this factor that he thought of himself — he didn’t kill Annie, he “simply moved her physique” — does one thing shift in him even earlier than Peter walks in?

Hawkes: For sure. I imply, he doesn’t wish to be doing this factor in any respect, however he’s trapped — Kate is aware of means an excessive amount of about him and what he’s achieved, and will destroy his life. He definitely doesn’t plan to shoot Otis. He simply needs to work issues out and be chief of police, and have his son look as much as him and admire him — and discover some method to categorical his love for his child on the similar time.

Peter lowers his gun, after which he raises it once more, pointing it straight at Hank. John, inform me about that second for Hank when he realizes, “Oh, my son simply selected Liz.”

Hawkes: That was one thing we labored towards, and wasn’t very clearly written.

There’s acquired to be a call in some unspecified time in the future, like, “If he’s towards me, I’ve acquired nothing else.” So when Hank raises his gun to Danvers, he definitely doesn’t, in my thoughts, ever imply to shoot her. It’s a suicide-by-cop second, however in an uncommon means: “If my son’s not with me, that’s all I’ve left. The fiancé didn’t work out; I’m not going to finish up chief of police; my child chooses Danvers over me.” It’s all achieved at that time.

I actually have the phrase suicide-by-cop in my subsequent query, however you answered it! Inform me about this rehearsing at Issa López’s condo — was that in Iceland throughout manufacturing?

Hawkes: We’d had a few weeks of rehearsal, and the forged and Issa would simply spend the day engaged on the scenes. We’d work on it collectively, and rewrite it and speak about what we’re aiming for in all these scenes.

However out of the blue we have been taking pictures, and that scene in Episode 5 had by no means fairly come collectively. However there have been a number of weekend rehearsals — weren’t they, Finn? The place we labored on issues, or rewrote issues?

Bennett: I suppose time ran out. However working in Issa’s condo felt very intimate, and like we actually achieved issues in there.

That scene — I imply, I’m so happy with it. It was the scene I’d been enthusiastic about from the second I acquired forged. And I bear in mind the day was simply across the nook, after which I acquired COVID and we couldn’t shoot it, so that they had me on an iPad they usually have been transferring me across the room to dam the scene.

I needed to wait one other 10 days, after which we have been being pushed within the morning, and that complete day I simply had this pit in my abdomen. I used to be like, “It’s the day. It’s the massive take a look at. All of it leads right down to this.”

Hawkes: Even that day as we have been starting to shoot, we have been nonetheless figuring issues out. Jodie eradicating her weapon and setting it on the island, the kitchen space, and my taking her weapon — that was determined proper earlier than we shot how that will play out.

Doing this scene with the legend Jodie Foster — and a director herself, clearly. What was that like?

Hawkes: Sure, however Finn, wasn’t she simply actually superb at not directing whereas she was performing? Actually, she was an government producer, and had quite a lot of say in issues, and quite a lot of actually vital concepts to the story.

Bennett: John is totally right in saying that Jodie didn’t strategy it directorially. It’s arduous, as a result of clearly she’s deconstructing each scene. She’s digicam angles, and she will be able to usually be like, “This received’t work since you want this,” and that’s a useful factor. Nevertheless it was by no means combative. It was extra only a suggestion. And Issa was in a position to choose and select what she preferred, however everyone was on the identical group there. It was very democratic.

Stepping again a bit, your characters are so awkward round one another, and it’s palpable. We all know some issues about what’s led to after we first meet them within the story, however did you two work with Issa to provide you with a backstory for his or her father-son relationship?

Bennett: John, right me if I’m unsuitable right here, however initially within the script, Hank was a lot much less nuanced. He was perhaps extra — not like a Disney character villain — however he was extra villainous. He hits Peter, certain, and it’s undoubtedly not the primary time.

There’s a way of disappointment Peter has in his father, and that’s grow to be an uncomfortable dynamic as he’s moved out of the home, and Peter has began his family trying again in — and seeing that Hank has been sending cash to this lady.

I don’t suppose it’s essentially abusive. I feel it’s rather more complicated and nuanced than that. It’s mentioned within the script that Peter’s mom left, and I feel there’s that hole in Peter’s life to fill, that I suppose you can say a component of that’s he’s in search of Liz to fill that hole. John is a lot better on the backstory stuff than I.

John?

Hawkes: Sure, you’re proper, Finn, the character of Hank was fairly straight forward, with out quite a lot of nuance or subtlety. I wished to make him greater than only a male chauvinist pig, violence-first type of man. Once I first started to talk to Issa, earlier than we went to Iceland, we had quite a few conferences, and that was actually my first concern. And he or she was actually open to the concept of creating Hank a extra full human being, a extra complicated man.

I started to appreciate I’ve by no means actually made a backstory with a director earlier than, it’s at all times been a very non-public factor simply to determine the story. And it was actually great to have conferences and flesh Hank out, however I started to appreciate no matter I used to be saying as, “Nicely, perhaps this…” she would ship me a duplicate of the script and out of the blue it might be in there. I started to suppose I’ve to watch out what I’d say!

I’m not wanting to essentially decide to something within the character. I attempt to simply float round within the water for some time quite than make rapid selections. Nevertheless it was actually nice. I imply issues like actually, “You didn’t kill Annie.” “No, that was not me.” “However did you narrow out her tongue? You didn’t do this, did you?” And I mentioned, “Sure, I did. And sure, I moved her physique and sure, I kicked her. She was already gone.”

The entire music facet of Hank I used to be not snug with on the outset — when she started to speak about that risk of him taking part in music. I at all times thought that if Hank had an inventive facet, he wouldn’t be as screwed up as he’s, in all probability. However as actors, we do ourselves a disservice to say, “my character wouldn’t do this,” as a result of as David Milch on “Deadwood” would at all times remind us, we’re mysteries to ourselves, and we’ve all achieved issues as people that we’ve shocked ourselves.

It’s great that Issa was so keen to collaborate.

Bennett: Sorry, I’ve been racking my brains to remind me who informed me about that “we’re mysteries to ourselves” — now I do know it was John Hawkes that taught me. I’ve been saying that in each interview like I’m some scholar!

One in every of my favourite scenes by the entire collection is after Peter can hear Hank taking part in the music, and he calls, and Hank simply says, “I used to be simply performing some work on the truck.” Pete simply lets the lie slide. It’s simply such a telling second about these two males — they’re a lot happier dwelling in an uncomfortable lie than addressing a deeper problem. I simply suppose that’s such a chef’s kiss second.

John, after I re-watched the episode, and also you’re singing that tune, I used to be frantically googling to determine what it was — and couldn’t discover it. I emailed HBO to ask whether or not it was authentic to the present, and the publicist wrote again, “John Hawkes wrote it!”

Bennett: It’s a John Hawkes authentic!

I do know it’s not the primary time you’ve contributed a tune to a mission that you simply’re in, however how did that come about right here?

Hawkes: Once more, when Issa broached it early on, Hank taking part in music, for the explanation acknowledged, I wasn’t snug. After which I assumed, “Nicely, it’ll simply be a man sitting in his front room taking part in an instrumental,” which I wrote and performed for her over the cellphone, and despatched her a model or two. And he or she mentioned, “That’s nice.” So I assumed, yeah, it’s not going to be performative. It’s only a man sitting round taking part in the guitar, and it’ll find yourself, because the script described, scoring some work between Danvers and Navarro and the mine riot.

It grew to become a splendidly good-natured argument between Issa and I, as a result of I performed a present whereas I used to be there with my good friend Nikki Lorenzo, a proficient musician. Issa got here, after which it grew to become, “Nicely, now you need to write phrases, and you need to sing to it!” I dug in so arduous. I imply, I like Issa! We by no means had any argument in any respect, ever. It was at all times spirited dialogue, with laughter afterwards. However I assumed out of the blue it was simply too performative. What phrases would I even start to jot down? I got here up with the phrases fairly final minute, really.

Finn, you have been working not solely with Jodie Foster, however with John Hawkes. What are some issues that you simply discovered from him?

Bennett: I wish to preface this by saying me and John did really hang around a bunch in Reykjavík. We might go for dinner, he lended me a guitar. I nonetheless can’t play guitar, I’m so sorry, John — I haven’t tried since!

However I feel one of many large issues is how John approaches a scene and makes use of dialogue, and simply actually checks in with everybody round him. He offers every thing to a scene, even when it’s not his protection, when the digicam is on me. He doesn’t have to do this; I imply, I suppose everybody ought to, however folks get lazy the larger they develop on their careers. John did that for me each single time. That’s an excellent lesson to study for any younger actor, and I’m extremely glad that I had that have with them. So thanks, John.

Hawkes: You’re welcome, Finn. I’ve to say, I’ve quite a lot of skeptical mates who’re actually arduous on folks, and unsolicited, lots of them have mentioned, “Man, the child who performs your son is incredible!”

I’ve acquired to agree. You’re simply so good on the present. So good, man. Stunning.

This interview has been edited and condensed.